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Known FS-WWI Plane Pack 4 and related bugs:
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DDT
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WingChaps wrote:
ArgonV wrote:
Yeah the Camel is uber as it is now. These FMs are VASTLY improved compaired to how they used to be, but Pang will have some more toned down and realistic ones in the future... Big Grin


That may be a mixed blessing... The 1914/15 kites have pretty toned down FMs, and the AI can't get them off the airfields... I'm afraid the further we get from WWII, the harder the time the AI will have... Sad


Well, I forget who's idea it was, but I like the idea of dual FMs in cases like this, AI, and player. May be the necessary answer to accomodate both, even if it's not an easy task.

Alternately, how are the missions made? I'm not a mission maker, but I'm wondering if setting gradual waypoints slowly climbing at the planes optimal rate would be enough to get them up without crashing.

Faling both of those, just go with air starts for the AI. Smile
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ArgonV
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I will step up my bickering VDU campaign then... We really need to get this AI buisness out of the way!

Help us VDU, you're our only hope...

Sad
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DDT
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just messing around with more of my "Fighter Competition" (So far, the results are - for the CP 1. Alb D.III, 2. Fokker D.VIII, 3. Fokker D.VII/Alb D.Va tie, and for Allies - 1. Camel, 2. Ansaldo, no third place close enough to count) and I got to thinking about the AI.

I don't know how the AI works, but it doesn't seem to be a plane or FM issue. Ever notice how often they just fly into the ground? Thats even when they are already airborne, and even in planes like the D.VIII and Alb D.III that can climb well. To an extent it can be helped by the plane type, Camels don't seem to do it as often, but, even they do it.

I call it being "ground spooked". The pattern seems to be - get too low, panic, feed in full back stick and stand it on it's tail, stall out, auger while desperately trying to pull out.

In fact, when flying against the Camel, if I can't beat it, I just start getting low. Eventually, they will get ground spooked, stall out and slam into the ground. Other times they get into a dive and pull out too late and loose bits of the plane.

This seems to be what is occuring on take off as well. And again, it's helped somewhat by plane type, but usually it's case of them trying to climb too hard, too slow, and the death cycle begins.

It's almost as if they don't really know where the ground is. They just know not to get "too low" if they can help it. Kinda like they operate on a virual "hard deck" that is 3K'+ off the ground. If they go under a touch, no big deal, and if they stall out, again, no big deal, just dive and get speed. Only, it is a big deal because they litter themselves all over the map flying like this.

While I don't fly WWII here, I can't see it being any different for AI in a 190. They aren't known for handling or power climbs. If they start this cycle too low in one of those, I'd think it would lead to the same result.
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WingChaps
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's an interesting theory... It can be tested by flying some WWII OR by asking the WWII guys directly. I doubt they're watching this thread. I've flown some WWII, though, including recently re-doing the Heroes of France campaign (which heavily utilized aircraft made by a modder, Scorpion Rouge). I can't say I've seen this, though I don't have much SDOE FW-190 experience...
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Flatline54
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with the AI in the WW1 part of this game is they were developed to fly WW2 planes. Without some serious recoding they will and do try to fly the kites like WW2 aircraft.
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DDT
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flatline54 wrote:
The problem with the AI in the WW1 part of this game is they were developed to fly WW2 planes. Without some serious recoding they will and do try to fly the kites like WW2 aircraft.


Yes. We've been there already. Neutral

Without knowing exactly how they operate, we can't say how much "recoding" it would take to fix it, and I'm not convinced (at the moment) that it's necessarily the era of the aircraft. The Ansaldo and Camel are both hard to crash, for former because of it's speed, and the latter because of it's handling. Something heavy and with poor handling, like a Jug or Würger, would be in just as much trouble in the same situations. I think it's the situations we end up in, not the aircraft or their FMs. Flying up high, it's not an issue (for many obvious reasons. lol).

Anyone have a WWII install? Grab a Yak3 and get into a knifefight in the weeds with an AI 190, see if he augers.
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Irish
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Argon,
I also can't get the Gotha bomber or its floatplane cousin to drop their loads. I know you pointed out earlier in this thread that "You have to select the bomb store first (External or internal) and then arm them. Once that is done you can drop them. To select the store, press 5 for external or 6 for internal and then press A to arm them. Then press your weapons release button Enter.", but that doesn't work for me, either 5 or 6.
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ArgonV
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2005 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right. This is controlled by you or the AI? Anyone else having this problem? The bombs are showing up for you?
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Irish
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm controlling the Gothas myself, although I've built them into bombing missions and it doesn't work with the AI, either. Now that you mention it, I can't see any bombs.
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ArgonV
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It sounds like you may have the wrong startup.ppf file. Try getting it from the PP4 EXE (Extract it to a different location)
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Irish
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bingo! Works great now Happy Thanks. So, how in the world did I get the wrong startup file? Do I need to reinstall PP4? What else might be messed up that I don't know about? Would this have anything to do with my Breguet 14 gunner problem?
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ArgonV
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know how you could of come across this really! Apparently the same thing happened to Wing Chaps and one other fellow... It would be interesting to see if others out there could test this for me. You should'nt have to reinstall anything. This should do it. Does the Breguet gun work now?? They might be related!
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PV
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect this might be to do with the Propertyfix zip. If the WWI startup has diverged from the WWII, and people are using the Property zip on all their installs, they will presumably get into trouble. It would appear that we would then have to designate separate property zips for WWI and everything else, and make clear note of that in the download description, or else keep the property zip updated with the WWI changes, if they can be kept compatible.
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ArgonV
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you might be right. Tho for a WWI-Only install there is no property.zip file needed. Smile
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I have submitted an edit for the property zip description to that effect. So the WWI pack takes care of all the ppf updates covered in the property xip?
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