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Zeppelin L-11 Alpha Released for testing:
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ArgonV
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:40 am    Post subject: Zeppelin L-11 Alpha Released for testing: Reply with quote

Please be kind as this is still very rough. Smile

Any existing missions will have to be edited to set the Zeppelin fuel capacity to 0 (For a full tank)

To do list/known bugs:

-Pilot texture not that of German Naval crew
-Zeppelin Squadrons not yet completed
-Main gas bag texture not completed
-Interior textures only temporary
-Damaged textures not done
-Zeppelin hangar and mooring mast not completed
-Front car engine not texture mapped
-Car glass panes not yet modeled or texture mapped

Please read the readme for installation instructions and report any feedback and/or bugs here or e-mail me. Smile

Download here: Zeppelin L-11 Alpha

Enjoy!
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WingChaps
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GAD, ArgonV, she's BREATHTAKING!!!

It's fantastic to pan around the outside view of this airship and see all the crew. The textures are a great improvement, I like the rear car particularly. Moving around the gun positions is neat, and being up top and able to see your partners right there is nice (though, at one of the side MG positions I can't see the front guy of the three). I noted the training and hangar entrees!

One question for right now. There is a nasty blind spot in the MG defense, from directly astern... Is there any way to put an MG nest at the very, very tip of the tail, or adjust another MG or two to cover the tail? As it is, it's too safe for a fighter to stalk it from directly behind...

A great improvement so far!
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ArgonV
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah will do about the gunner. Smile I don't think this type has a rear gunner so I'll increase the arch of the top foward gunners.

These textures are slowly improving as I dabble with them as best I can. Already I've improved the engine texture and the front insides a bit since this release. I still need to change a few things with the basic training missions too... (Briefing texts and such) Once the Zeppelin hangar is completed (About 80% total right now I'd say) I'm going to move the Zeppelin to a bigger airfield and have you start out in the Hangar and land in the Hangar as well... We'll see about the mooring mast.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm interested in what Mossie would say about the defensive armament. I cobbled together a basic mission with a Nieuport 11 intercepting, and she comes in right from astern, which makes sense since she has to chase the Zeppelin. That's the one place there isn't a gun...

One of your side MGs in the top nest already swings pretty far around (I think the starboard one). The problem is the gasbag is in the way... On the other hand, I spent some time looking around on the Internet for images of a tail nest and couldn't find anything.

I remember one of a basket at the very tail of the WOW Zeppelin, but I have no evidence at all that it was historical. Neither could I find the screenshot. Embarassed I did find this:



Again, though, I don't know at all if it is historical.

Perhaps a gunner may be situated with his head and shoulders protruding through the roof of the rear car, facing rearward, under the gasbag? He'd have to stand far enough up to fire over the rear prop (there are so many props on this bird! Rolling Eyes Wink )

This issue is, when we get this bird into combat, the archi in this game is already wicked, and it's a big target. Now, think about air to air. When the AI can toast your butt...

So, I'm interested in what Mossie might be able to add. I guess, if it comes to it, the Zeppelin skipper can turn his airship so that his gunners can get a shot at his harasser?

Or, how about this... Is there a way to allow the side gunners of the cars to be able to 'lean' far enough out their windows to get a shot rearward?
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ArgonV
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hopefully Mossie will chime in here and give some insight on the issue. Smile Maybe this is why so many Zeppelins were lost?!? Embarassed
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WingChaps
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the important thing is it's not a showstopper.

With the Nieuport on my tail, at the helm I turned hard back on him, then back the other way. It was not long before the Nupe was in flames on the way down. It will be interesting to see how the gunners do with more than one target...

My desire as a mission writer is to do missions that are equally fun flown from either side. That may not be as doable here... To enable AI fighters to intercept the Zep, it can't be to hard for them. In the same situation, one of us 'players' will rush right behind the L-11. On the other hand, to do a mission challenging for the Allies, part of the challenge may be, like a U-Boat sim, plotting the intercept. An AI pilot in the same situation likely wouldn't make interception. So, missions more 1-sided.

THAT's with things as they are. Maybe we can...
a) enable the gondola gunners to lean out more...
b) place a gun position atop the aft gondola (car)
c) add a gun position(s) somewhere else

Mossie might can give some historical advice, but either way it's not a showstopper.

By the way, I LOVED landing the airship, and once I disengaged the brake, driving her on the ground was no problem! Here is my new desktop. I'll have to do another sometime soon with clouds and a morning sky...



If one looks closely, they can see the gunners, even the helmsman! This is one excellent addon already!
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Mossie
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The tail gunner was only one one model and not ours. It also wasn't a very popular place for the crew.

The gunner baskets on the outside of the control cars are also not real. That is Wings of War's game approach.

The skipper could turn, take about 10 minutes or more, so wouldn't be very effective. Altitude was the Zep's best defence, that is why the next model the R was called the "height climbers", could cruise at 20,000 ft.

Most Zeps failed due to weather and poor handling, some by AA and a few by being shot down by aircraft.
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ArgonV
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried to do a gunner that could lean-out but it did not work too well... The problem is once leaned out the firing arch radius would have to be inscreased but leaned it there's no way decrease the radius so you don't clip the gun thru the walls.

I will try to position the gunner sticking out more and see what happens.

BTW Wing Chaps, why does your control tower look so blurry?
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ArgonV
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok I moved the rear 2 gunners closer to the window opening so they have a bit better view and range. Really all I can do. Sad Just set the Zepp to climb alt and have the righters start out lower (As was done in real life when fighters were sighted, Zepps would climb like a bat out of hell!)

Of that list I posted above you can cross out the glass and front engine mapping.
I've started to work on the front interior some more... Adding a "copilot" for the other wheel and making the rear car head position just an observer one. Also added some instruments and small detailed bits as well as improved the textures a tad bit.
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WingChaps
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArgonV wrote:
BTW Wing Chaps, why does your control tower look so blurry?


'Cause I'm taking the screenshot from inside it, the 'F8' view? I dunno!

I appreciate all you're doing on the armament issue... It'll all work out with proper mission writing. I may do a different set of missions for Zeppelin interception, but I want some where the AI pilots actually shoot at the airship...

Now, a real test will be what happens with Archi... Since I find the current Archi so deadly vs bomber aircraft (even fighters) I can hazard a guess that the Zeppelin wouldn't stand much of a chance. Your thoughts? [edit] Never mind, I remember an earlier post. Archi's not attacking it!

I'm really looking forward to your next version. Already, the gauges in the latest one add a lot! I also particularly enjoy looking around and seeing my airshipmates... For someone who doesn't consider himself a skinner, you're doing rather well!

[edit] I have learned, by the way, not to try to start TWO of these guys at the same airfield... Embarassed
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ArgonV
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strange mine doesnt look that blurry, LOL! Embarassed I do recall a bug where you have to look at the tower from the outside close up for the texture to load all the way...

You have a good point about the Archi! Tho I've not actually ran into too many problems on my end. It will be lessened in the Patch however. I can't get the spotlight to tack the Zeppelin... I don't think the archi will eitehr but I will test it out.

As for the skin and insides, the new front inside really looks MUCH impoved now and I have some more details to add in now that Mossie told me where to put them. Big Grin And yeah, if you want to have 2 Zepps from the same field make one in a different squadron. Wink
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Hentzau
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe you could get archi to attack a zeppelin with a modified version of the artillery barrage "aircraft" that you would place in almost the exact same place as the zeppelin with the exact same waypoints and speed? Could probably use some sort of blank squadron for those also.
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ArgonV
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not understanding you on that one...

On another note, the German Naval Airship Division AND the Army Airship Service squadrons are completed. Big Grin
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have an invisible aircraft that falls to the earth like a bomb and looks like an artillery barrage when a whole squadron of them hit the ground. So maybe you could have an invisible aircraft that behaves like the zeppelin, but isn't so big that the AI won't target it with spotlights and archie. Guess the problem might be getting it to stay close enough to the zeppelin so that the zeppelin would be hit by fire/light aimed at the invisible aircraft.
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ArgonV
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I think that is too risky... Too much risk of collision and it would be a real pain for the mission maker! Sad
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