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What would you all say to a British heavy bomber?
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ArgonV
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:51 am    Post subject: What would you all say to a British heavy bomber? Reply with quote

I know I have other stuff to do, but this is an important gap IMO. Thoughts?
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, HECK yeah!

Yes, let me pake a pitch! After the Be2c becomes obsolescent, the bombing scene for the English get's mighty thin. They do have the Bristol (later one), but she's not the same.

For heavy bombers war-wide, the Germans have the Gotha and the Zeppelin, the Italians have the Caproni, the Russians have the Ilya (which is becoming amphibious, yet). The French have a bomber, too, the Breguet 14. Medium bombers, the Germans have the Walfisch mid-war, the Hannover late-war.

When you add in the fact that the Brits were on the offensive later in the war, a heavy bomber for them makes a lot of sense.

But, not only would this fill a gap, but bombers are great for missions! You can either escort them, or FLYING them and crewing the guns is an SDOE distinctive. It's a different kind of flying, more so even than the amphibs.

And... heavy? Don't tease me! Well, tease me please... Poke Tounge ANY of the British late-war bombers would be nice, but there is ONE, only considered heavy, that would be SOOOO nice!
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ArgonV
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, depends how heavy I guess... It doesn't have 4 engines but it is a well-known type. Big Grin It's not a Short, but it does have folding wings. Can you guess it?

BTW, did the Hannover carry wing mounted bombs? How about the Roland C.II? I can't find any pics anywhere to place hard points on these kites. Sad
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I'm hoping for the Handley Page O/400! Or one in that series...

As for the hard points on those two German kites, I'll see what I can find out!

On the Roland, from http://www.making-history.ca/full_build/Roland_CII/default.htm

"According to available documents, the C.lla differed only slightly from the C.II; namely in having a modified wing spar section, a changed wing strut location, a wooden strip on the trailing edge instead of wire, some slight dimensional changes and external racks for four 12.5 kg. (27.6 lbs.) bombs. While conclusive proof is still lacking, a study of photographs makes it reasonably certain that the chief characteristic of the C.lla was the addition of a fixed forward-firing machine gun for the pilot."

I found nothing on the Hannoversche. This is for serious research... Embarassed


Last edited by WingChaps on Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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Blacksheep
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Handley Page 0/400 would be a much needed (and really fun) addition to our WWI collection here!
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ArgonV
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes it's the 0/400 Big Grin

Thanks for the info on the Roland C.II!
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok bomb load in for the Roland C.II Big Grin
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blacksheep? The rest of you guys? All together now: AAAHHHHHHHHHH!!! Laugh

I'm really happy about the 0/400. Two engines perhaps, but she's a heavy bomber in my mind, and one of the iconic aircraft of WWI. I mean, if I were to compile a list of aircraft I'd want in a WWI sim, she'd be there with the Camel, the Dr1 and DVII, the Gotha, Zeppelins, SPAD, she'd 'make the short list'.

I'm very happy she's on her way, it'll be great to have her in the game, and worth the time she takes from your other punch-list items!

Those extra bombs on the Roland will be nice too, by the way! It'd be nice to verify them for the Hannoversche, they only make sense...
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We need recon/arty observation aircraft much more than impliments of the strategic bombing campaigns, but then this apparently seems to be top priority here in FS-WWI, even though strategic bombers never were effective at delivering their loads on target during the Great War, and amounted to a great failure (aiming technology and 'tonnage' never allowed their value to be realizled).

But if it's Gothas, Zeppelins, and HP's that you're wanting, then I guess there's no stopping the bombers from 'getting through' (yeah right). Rolling Eyes

I think the "bigger is better" bug must be making you all daffy! Big Grin

You want to build the quintessential British strategic bomber, get the DH 4 built for FS-WWI. This is an aircraft with so much historical utility, versatility, and renown that the HP 0400 pales in comparison................and we can really put it to a wide range of mission tasking in our games too!
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, that's all well and good, Fly, so where is the model for that DH-4 coming from? Rolling Eyes I know I can't make it... I suppose we can ask some modellers to make it, but then it's up to them to decide whether one or the other's going to make it. And God knows we don't have a long list of modellers to ask, so asking should take no time at all!

Maybe it's because I know the modeller for THIS bird has wanted to do it for awhile that I took the question at face value: "What would you all say to a British heavy bomber?" I took that to mean "This particular modeller has offered to finish and offer his British heavy bomber to a degree that we can take it and get it into the game if we decide to shoehorn it into the to-do list, what do you say?" I said "Yes". I thought the alternative would be "No, even though we COULD have the British heavy bomber, I don't want it".

If you want to start a thread somewhere asking what we think we need we don't have, I'll be happy to participate. But if He Who Shall Be Nameless For Now is offering the 0/400, I'm for taking. Because it'll be fun!

And by the way, if you're going to discuss the 'great failure' that WWI strategic bombing was, you'd need to begin that discussion with the German campaigns against England. I would agree the airships, Gothas, and fixed-wing Zeppelins did questionable material damage, but it appears they did profound morale damage and tied significant air assets to the west side of the Channel. If England had lofty expectations of the 0/400 and other such aircraft, they probably got them in the spotlights over London.
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FlyXwire
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WingChaps,

There's been lots of threads where I've asked what our build process here is in FS-WWI (past and present, forwards and backwards), so to contemplate that there hasn't been quite a bit of discussion of late as to what we "need" in FS-WWI, as opposed to what would be "fun" to do in this sim means much is being ignored.

Now I'm wondering why some models seem to drop from the skies into our laps, and request for the more numerous tactical aircraft never get satisfied? Shall we open up how it all happens, or is the idea to keep it all nice and tidy.

When things get too insular and controlled, you're going to end up getting exactly what you want..........but then this approach presupposes you know what's good for everyone (hey maybe you all do).

So when is someone in the know going to ask if we can have a DH 4 or an LVG, or a Brandenburg perhaps???

Guys, you're slowly loosing me on this one, and it's not because I don't understand, but because I'm trying to convey a more organized and structured process here!

I have been willing to put my ideas on the table anytime for discussion of how they would bring much utility to FS-WWI (and have), but if maintaining tight control of the process is what you guys are ultimately after here, I'm not going to try to change your minds about this.

Finally I'll point out that Wings of War is fun too, and it's got WWI aircraft models in it of big bombers, and nice terrain, and cool flocks of birds, and exciting bomb 'em up missions, and music, and so on and so forth, but not too many people ever confused it with being a serious WWI combat flight sim, and there's still lots of guys working like hell to make it into one!

Anyway, good luck on the Handley-Page, I hope it proves to give you all the bang for the buck you think it will!
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well we don't even know who's building this or why honestly? We have a very thin modeling crew out there, its tough to request a plane of any type and have anyone build it. If someone out there has built a Handley Page because they were interested in it and they want to see it in FS WWI, well the way I see it that's a good thing, its one more plane to our catalog of aircraft.

If we had 3 or 4 WWI only modelers we would have all the aircraft we wanted and needed, but we don't have them. I thought the Handley Page would be fun, but if this aircraft were the DH4 I wouldn't be upset or angry, frankly I'm just glad there is someone still building something for this sim. This is just a game, we simmers sometimes take ourselves to seriously I think, probably the reason my IL2 squad is all but dead. The fun got sucked out of flying by a few guys who were "ultra hardcore" so much so that we could only fly specific super realistic war matches with certain rules, and we required a 10 page flight manual just to know how to say basic phrases or perform a formation turn!

Since then I have taken sims less seriously. Certainly "Arcade" games don't interest me in anyway, but I also just like flying for fun, with whatever amazing aircraft are available. I remind myself that this is just a game on a computer, not worth arguing about if at all possible.

So a DH4 would be great, got some pictures of the one parked at Duxford in fact! However, I'll take a Handley Page as well, I've never seen one in a sim and it would be fun. And simming and fun are allowed to go together, to bad my IL2 squad didn't realize that untill it was to late.
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ArgonV
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It works like this FlyXwire:

I am in no position to ask any one to model a 3d aircraft. It takes HUGE ammounts of time to get a model built and then import it in-game (More so than skinning when you start from scratch) I am the only one at present who has time enough to import aircraft in-game. (Recon3 being indisposed at the moment) Thus I take what I get offered as it is a thousand times better than nothing at all.

Thus, the modeling guru, being the fine chap he is, offered me (I didn't approach him) a chance at the 0/400. It was either a Yes or a No. I had two choices in the matter and my thoughts were "Gee, I could say yes, and fill an important gap in FS-WWI. Or I could say no, and not know when an opportunity like this would come up again."

So it's really nothing to do about organization... It's what gets handed to us in the 3d modeling department until one of us takes the giant leap foward to start learning so we don't have to depend on outside sources as it were. I know a lot about 3d modeling, but not enough to build an aircraft from scratch. I've got to divide my talents as it were...
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Last edited by ArgonV on Sat Feb 12, 2005 6:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ArgonV
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To lighten things up a bit, here are some WIP shots the masked modeler has to offer!







Outstanding isn't it!! Big Grin
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gah, Blacksheep and ArgonV posted when I did, and probably better, so let me edit all that out and say...

Those are fine shots, of gorgeous work! I'll be starting 1917 soon, she'll fit right in.
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Last edited by WingChaps on Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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