Downloads - FAQ - Search - Memberlist - Usergroups  - Register  - Profile - Log in to check your private messages - Log in 
So a new beginning dawns for FS-WWI?
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic   printer-friendly view    OpenPlaneSim Forums Forum Index -> FS-WWI Developers Area
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
FlyXwire
Wing Commander
Wing Commander


Joined: 24 Dec 2002
Last Visit: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 740
Location: St.Charles, MO U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:03 pm    Post subject: So a new beginning dawns for FS-WWI? Reply with quote

Not so fast!!! Big Grin

You expect me to cave on my standards now at the promise of getting a few new 2-seater models into FS-WWI, no way, first I'd like to see a procedure established for choosing which aircraft we do decide to tackle in the future here. See, I've been harping along time now that we need a process for determining which aircraft need to be built for FS-WWI, and how us contributors to this project need to organize ourselves to the task........well now it's time to practice what I preach, and lead by example!

First, no one should really expect a model to be accepted unless it fits into an agreed upon plan that's been discussed by the FS-WWI development team (yours truly included), and although I think some essential 2-seaters should be high on the to-do list, I'm certainly willing to see a process of discussion go forward before any approval of substantive work begins. As we all are painfully aware of by now, creating aircraft for inclusion into FS-WWI involves the work of a number of people to implement completely, and especially now to maintain the standards we have established to date, therefore it only seems sensible that a consensus should be formed before any work begins on a new aircraft, so we know a modeling project has the resources and manpower behind it to see the work finished!

So now it's time for us to submit our choices here for priority build, and everyone's wishes should be back on the table:

I think FS-WWI greatly needs a mid to late war recon/arty observation 2-seater, with the British RE 8 being the preeminent historical machine that performed this role in the war. At present we have no aircraft for this period that provides the critical linchpin for the important army-cooperation tasks, and although the "Harry Tate" is by no means an exciting aircraft, it is an essential aircraft for any WWI combat air sim which focuses on the airwar over the Western Front in 1917-18.

My next choice for building would be the DH 4, which served capably in WWI in such a myriad of roles that it was heralded as one of the outstanding biplane designs of the conflict. The utility of a fast, long range bomber which could serve the dual-purpose of both tactical and strategic bomber, and which the British Independent Air Force used extensively, would provide much utility for mission making in FS-WWI.

Alright, above is an example of how we could submit, discuss, and proceed on choosing what aircraft should be built by this mod team, and hopefully will present some guidelines for a process of reaching mutually agreed upon decisions, therefore hopefully leading to more efficient aircraft building in the future.

It's an idea to get from point A to B, and with as many members pulling the cart along the path ahead as might be possible.........maybe it's time for this team to start thinking along this direction, or at least talking about it (if you catch my drift). Cool

Build proposals, ideas, comments???
_________________
Real aviators are very sharp and not so timorous. That did not help their good relations with the bureaucrats. -Willy Coppens-
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Blacksheep
Air Commodore - JAG
Air Commodore - JAG


Joined: 21 Dec 2002
Last Visit: 03 Jul 2018
Posts: 630
Location: Rhode Island

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

However, we still only have one mystery modeller at the moment correct? If we had 3 or 4 guys to build models then suggestions could be made and workloads divided evenly. But with only 1 modeller, well, we can suggest untill the cows come home but nothing is going to get built.

Some of us will need to learn how to build for this to work the way its intended to.
_________________


"Fortune favors the bold" - Vergil
=V67= Blacksheep
The Sheeps Pen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
ArgonV
Air Marshal - Site Admin
Air Marshal - Site Admin


Joined: 24 Dec 2002
Last Visit: 19 Jul 2018
Posts: 5224
Location: Texas, USA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed with both parties.
_________________
'Go Fly A Kite!'
-Jason R.
FS-WWI Project Leader

FS-WWI Plane Pack Site
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
WingChaps
Squadron Leader
Squadron Leader


Joined: 03 Jan 2003
Last Visit: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 451
Location: A Coast Guard Air Station

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, in support of FlyXwire...

The Masked Modeller DID say this:

Masked-Modeller wrote:
Also want interior details, internal framing and dashboard info. This game needs some more 2 seaters.

Give me plans...I give you planes

Hi-ho Silver....away Wink ..........
say..who was that masked modeller....


Now, I'd never want to abuse his generousity, nor would I want him to FEEL abused. But, let's say he has a DH-4 under way, and he's willing to do the RE-8. What would be a good German 2-seater? Something ubiquitous, common in 1917 and 1918. Something that could 'take over' from the Walfisch? I mean really, I don't feel qualified to pick the best one... Embarassed I realize what the Masked Modeller WANTS to do trumps what we might suggest here... Wink
_________________
Fair Winds and Following Seas,

WingChaps
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
ArgonV
Air Marshal - Site Admin
Air Marshal - Site Admin


Joined: 24 Dec 2002
Last Visit: 19 Jul 2018
Posts: 5224
Location: Texas, USA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, back to the point (I was at work in my earlier post)

Some organization needs to be on hand. I can't just go pulling things out of my arse and neither can you guys. That being said, we are no production factory either. Our time, personel, and skills are limited (Varies person to person of course) We each have our talents and current duties and commitments.

As Blacksheep said, we can argue and choose and demand and wish all we want but it makes no difference if someone doesn't have the desire or skills to build an aircraft to begin with!

A long time ago on a forum far far away the Plane Pack crew for WW2 set standards that their aircraft must meet. I think it would be good if we find out exactly what these were and follow them. I personally think we've been doing a pretty good job considering the number of completed aircraft we currently have!

I first think our top priority is to finish what little we have left with the current plane set. Mossie and I have been doing just that. As well as Recon3 with the S.E.5a. Big Grin
_________________
'Go Fly A Kite!'
-Jason R.
FS-WWI Project Leader

FS-WWI Plane Pack Site
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
ArgonV
Air Marshal - Site Admin
Air Marshal - Site Admin


Joined: 24 Dec 2002
Last Visit: 19 Jul 2018
Posts: 5224
Location: Texas, USA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said Wing Chaps!

Personally I think we have plenty of German 2-seaters both early and mid to late-war. We have the Etrich Taube, Albatros B.II, Aviatik C.I, Hannover CL.III, and Roland C.II. All of these are useful in one form of the other and serve our cause well. We also have a nice selection of German fighters to choose from as well. What we really need is a late-war heavy Gotha bomber.

The British aren't missing much either! Just a late-war 2-seater and a heavy bomber.

The French on the other hand are lacking in the fighter area and a tad bit in the 2-seater area as well. We need a good late-war French fighter and 2-seater.

The Americans didn't have much to begin with really, they mainly used French and British aircraft.

The Russians also used mainly French and a few British aircraft. However they still need a good early to mid-war fighter of their own design. The Moska needs to be polished badly!! Sad

The Italians are missing a lot!!! They have plenty of fighters and bombers and 2-seaters that could be had. They also used many French aircraft.
_________________
'Go Fly A Kite!'
-Jason R.
FS-WWI Project Leader

FS-WWI Plane Pack Site
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
Mossie
Flying Officer
Flying Officer


Joined: 06 Mar 2004
Last Visit: 09 Jul 2011
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So would an Albatros C.VII be any good to you ? 1916 period onwards.

Have one with the exterior model done and mapped. Would need rescaling to suit SDOE but that's no issue.

ArgonV you'd need to put in game, like you did for the Zep.

I agree getting the balance of planes is important, but if you only have modellers building choice aircraft then the balance will not be met. A programme of work is appropiate, a list of aircraft required, not just "more two seaters". Where are the gaps, with aircraft names in the frame.

Sorry 2p from the side line.
_________________
Mossie
WWI aircraft Library
http://ww1-Fluffy feathers/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
ArgonV
Air Marshal - Site Admin
Air Marshal - Site Admin


Joined: 24 Dec 2002
Last Visit: 19 Jul 2018
Posts: 5224
Location: Texas, USA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very good points!

And yes a Albatros C.VII would be excellent! Please sned it my way after you resize it and I will look it over.
_________________
'Go Fly A Kite!'
-Jason R.
FS-WWI Project Leader

FS-WWI Plane Pack Site
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
ArgonV
Air Marshal - Site Admin
Air Marshal - Site Admin


Joined: 24 Dec 2002
Last Visit: 19 Jul 2018
Posts: 5224
Location: Texas, USA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

P.S.

Send the whole thing to me in AC format please as I will have to orient the model the right way and then center each piece before exporint and set the texture index number to reference the textures listed in the SM file.

Thanks! Smile
_________________
'Go Fly A Kite!'
-Jason R.
FS-WWI Project Leader

FS-WWI Plane Pack Site
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address MSN Messenger
Masked-Modeller
Cadet
Cadet


Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Last Visit: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 12
Location: Sitting on the dock of the bay ...wasting time

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me make a little point here....

If you want planes built, collect up good 3-views, reference pics, cockpit data etc. then ask if anyone wants to build the plane. I have had a trawl through Mossies page and found some useful stuff which will help. Not everything I need is there...but some good starting points.

Now...if someone is gong to lay out a list of planes that I have to build...PAY ME. Look on the net for the sort of prices that such things fetch.

Cruel...harsh...unfair...yeah..you bet.

If I am going to throw in hundreds of man hours building for free, then it is going to be on planes I like, or planes that interest me. If that doesn't fit with your desires, please say so now.

If I am going to be 'commissioned' to build what you want, then it becomes a business deal. If you are paying for a project, then you get control over the subject matter.

At the end of the day, I will build what I choose, and you can us it or not. If you want to set standards on features, detail, etc. then that is good. IF there is going to be strict editorial control over what planes you will allow built....well.... you may just find you get no planes at all.

It seems to me, you don't have a long list of modelling talent waiting to do the work. If you want certain planes done, ENCOURAGE the builder, supply beatiful details they can model, and generally make the thing interesting. Works better for me than saying 'build a XXXXX' or we won't use it since it's impact on WW1 was minimal ....blah blah ( long list of data sources quoted ) which is frankly, going to piss me off in double quick time.

so .... keeping the Western theme going ...

'Are you going to pull those pistols or whistle Dixie'
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
WingChaps
Squadron Leader
Squadron Leader


Joined: 03 Jan 2003
Last Visit: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 451
Location: A Coast Guard Air Station

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, MM,

It's not every day a modeller drops out of the sky with a well-developed model in hand, and the quote about plans and planes added to the excitement. Modellers are a rare find...

I think what you said, distilled here somewhat, frames it nicely:

Masked-Modeller wrote:
Let me make a little point here....

If you want planes built, collect up good 3-views, reference pics, cockpit data etc. then ask if anyone wants to build the plane... If I am going to throw in hundreds of man hours building for free, then it is going to be on planes I like, or planes that interest me... If you want certain planes done, ENCOURAGE the builder, supply beatiful details they can model, and generally make the thing interesting...


That being said, please pardon any earlier exuberance, and we'll clear our heads and get back to doing what we do. In the Navy we say "What interests the admiral FASCINATES us!" I'm sure we'll be happy with whatever you do. I'm already pumped to do a campaign for your 0/400!

And Mossie, that Albatros will fit in nicely! I think it's a great choice.
_________________
Fair Winds and Following Seas,

WingChaps
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
FlyXwire
Wing Commander
Wing Commander


Joined: 24 Dec 2002
Last Visit: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 740
Location: St.Charles, MO U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one's been more frustrated here than me lately, and that's because we build no consensus to what FS-WWI needs to round out this Western theme (but I'm referring to our Western Front theme).

We all would like to model or texture or code planes we want to do, but I've done a ton of skinning and graphics that I didn't get too excited about because I understood it would take FS-WWI to the next level. The WWI-themed GUI was accomplished because Argon wanted it (and because it made good sense for the mod), and I picked up the nationality flag work to get that project finished so that PP4 could be wrapped up nicely by Christmas.......didn't really care to do all that either, but it needed to get done, and Hentzau didn't have the time.

So absolutely, it's time for a little encouragement!

The emphasis here should now be on creating a consensus on future (and past) projects that will serve the greatest utility for FS-WWI, especially so since the build process requires a TEAM effort to produce, and crafting a procedure for actually completing an aircraft start to finish is something I can get excited about, because then we'll all have come through the decision making process together.

Finally, none of us ever get paid for the work we do here, and texturing a plane can easily take as long as the modeling does, so with this in mind who's been put on the schedule to skin any of these planes anyhow?

Anyone? Ok, everyone form a line here..................Tell Me

Btw, I've got a tentative lay-off week from work coming in mid-March, and I'm shopping around for a skinning job, and I appreciate Mossie offering an aircraft that could fill some holes we presently have in our lineup, but let's see, got a few choices here, anyone want to pay me to look their way.................Big Grin

(and I do take exception to that "blah blah" comment above because it's just part of the historical record)

(edit)

Mossie:
Quote:
I agree getting the balance of planes is important, but if you only have modellers building choice aircraft then the balance will not be met. A programme of work is appropiate, a list of aircraft required, not just "more two seaters". Where are the gaps, with aircraft names in the frame.


It's the difference between a game and a sim......so where's FS-WWI's list???
_________________
Real aviators are very sharp and not so timorous. That did not help their good relations with the bureaucrats. -Willy Coppens-
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Flatline54
Flight Lieutenant
Flight Lieutenant


Joined: 17 Feb 2003
Last Visit: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 170

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Normally I stay out of these threads because I want to avoid ruffled feathers. First I would like to thank all of you who have the talent necessary to model and skin planes for all of us to enjoy, and are willing to donate your time to create them.

Since this is a volenteer group perhaps we should use the following approach. "What planes could we add that we can get the most use from for the time spent on creating them"?

The late war French aircraft are a prime example. These planes were used by the Americans and the Italians also. One French plane + slight mod = 3 nationalities and an extra front.

If we have a limited amount of time,perhaps we should try to get the most out of it. Just a suggestion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
FlyXwire
Wing Commander
Wing Commander


Joined: 24 Dec 2002
Last Visit: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 740
Location: St.Charles, MO U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Over Flanders Fields created a build list:

Aircraft:

Allied Craft:

Sopwith Camel
Sopwith Triplane
Sopwith Pup
Sopwith Strutter
SE5A
Nieuport 11
Nieuport 17
SPAD 7
SPAD 13

Two Seaters:

RE8 (Harry Tate)
BE2C
Brisfit

Central Powers Craft:

Albatross DII
Albatross DIII
Albatross Dva
Fokker Dr1
Fokker DVII
Pfalz DIII

Two Seaters:

Roland DII
Albatross C1
Hannover
Rumpler

Over Flanders Fields is:

A freeware addon for CFS3 that will recreate the AIRWAR that heralded the beginning of aerial combat as we know it today.

It will be released in three phases:

Bloody April Late 1916 - 1918

Fokker Scourge 1915 - 1916

Recon Wars 1914 - 1915

The add-on is a standalone one click install and will encompass the following features in an effort to immerse the simmer into the 1914 - 1918 airwar.


I like their modular release approach (build out the predominant aircraft involved during delineated phases of the air war).........now that's nice and tidy!

Hey, a Spad 13!!! Wink
_________________
Real aviators are very sharp and not so timorous. That did not help their good relations with the bureaucrats. -Willy Coppens-
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Blacksheep
Air Commodore - JAG
Air Commodore - JAG


Joined: 21 Dec 2002
Last Visit: 03 Jul 2018
Posts: 630
Location: Rhode Island

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Masked-Modeller wrote:

At the end of the day, I will build what I choose, and you can us it or not. If you want to set standards on features, detail, etc. then that is good. IF there is going to be strict editorial control over what planes you will allow built....well.... you may just find you get no planes at all.


Believe me, I am just excited to get any aircraft at all. I realize you are building the Handley Page because you want to, and well, I want to fly it as well!

FlyXwire, I respect you immensely, you know that, but take a look at what we have here. Basically 1 or 2 occassional modellers who perhaps got bored/angry with the SDOE community in the past and have since decided to return in secret and build 1 or 2 planes for us out of enjoyment. If we start making demands that they have to build this aircraft before that one, they will leave again and never come back. Then we will have nothing built at all, and a few more angry community members driven away.

Your idea is good FlyXwire, and we do need those aircraft. But we also need to learn how to model ourselves if you expect that plan to work out in the long term. Someone is building a plane for us here out of the goodness of there heart, and I'm going to accept it. I certainly will not make any "demands" on this builder or we will loose him forever after the Handley page is realeased, or maybe before its released.

I'm not angry at all in this post, I still respect everyone here and your all good friends to me. But I honestly had to say that and point this out.
_________________


"Fortune favors the bold" - Vergil
=V67= Blacksheep
The Sheeps Pen
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    OpenPlaneSim Forums Forum Index -> FS-WWI Developers Area All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
OpenPlaneSim Forums topic RSS feed 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

GZIP: Disabled GZIP: Disabled  Queries: 16Queries: 16  Generation Time: 0.76253  Seconds Generation Time: 0.76253 Seconds