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Tuning the AI so the aircraft maintain altitude in combat?
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LesterBoffo
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:52 pm    Post subject: Tuning the AI so the aircraft maintain altitude in combat? Reply with quote

It's a repeated theme in dogfight encounters in FS -WWI the moment you bleed off 'E' and start dropping the the whole furball follows you down.

I was doing this last night in the Rhineland campaign. I was flying a lone wolf Fokker DVII against the US 95 Sqdn. Me against about 5 other aircraft and I was trying to maintain about a 6500 foot altitude with shallow diving attacks followed by turning climbs to keep me from being a fixed target to the busy and highly agitated American squadron.

Maintaining altitude at speed in the DVII is easy if you keep your speed up, but damn the American team spent all their time just getting lower and lower, and lower.. And yet they didn't seem to be bleeding 'E' much?

Then they'd forget you were still above them and would start off for base. so you would have to chase them down to get their attention again.

I hate making kills using terra firma. Why can't the AI figure out that losing altitude in a furball gets you bouncing off the ground. hell In RedBaron 3D the AI will try to maintain some altitude when fighting against you.

Is the AI tweakable?

Oh yeah, I won, but most of the "kills" were the Spads pasting themselves against the mountains. And I certainly got my share of deflection hits from the few Spads that "rose" to the occasion.
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ArgonV
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah yes, this has been a problem since day one. It has gotten better (The AI used to just nose dive into the ground after a while, and was not able to climb out at all or even take off half of the time) but it's still a big problem with the fights getting lower and lower. The AI wants to B and Z, but the problem is these WWI kites don't climb as fast as WW2 kites. The AI was designed for WW2 fighting and tactics, not for WWI tactics. You will also notice they never seem to use the rudder after take off. This is a HUGE problem for WWI kites as the rudder was needed often for turning and correcting direction. The AI thus far has not been able to be tweaked, just the aircraft they fly. Sad
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LesterBoffo
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So the AI code doesn't use the rudder at all once airborne? Surprised

Yeah could make sense, though excessive use of the rudder is one of the causes of 'E" bleeding. It seems an extra added AI algorithm or some sort of aileron and elevator control lessening and more throttle added while circling when below your enemy could be added to the code, of course it seems we don't have access to this programming...

I don't try to do boom and zooms with the SPAD's, it's their forte. I seemed to do best to keeping to a shallow dive with a slight turn going while picking out targets of opportunity, followed by climbing in an opposite direction.

So I take this to be old news and an accepted part of playing the single player?
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ArgonV
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, sadly so... Sad

The rudder really comes in handly for bombers or other slow lumbering aircraft, both of which the AI have a hard time at keeping in formation because of the lack of rudder use once airborne.

P.S. This is one of the reason I try to start off dogfight missions in single player at higher altitudes. Wink
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LesterBoffo
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you program in differential aileron throws in the FM of the aircraft, there's ways to mimic rudder input.
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ArgonV
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It can be done, but really throws off the FM for the player, as the player and the AI use the same .SM file.
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7mks
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't the AI behavior, specifically the Z'nB, also greatly influenced by aircVa, ...Vmin, ...Gmax/min settings?
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ArgonV
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, as well as the propElements for climbing. I've gotten those settings pretty well finely tuned, as now the AI in FS-WWI can take off correctly (Even with a bomb load) and intercept bombers with keeping on their tail. However there are still problems with the AI in searching for altitude and trying to climb out too harshly causing a stall... And thus losing altitude and eventually crashing when there is no more altitude to be had... Sad
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
climb out too harshly

Have you experimented alot with this on those kites :
... obAirfoil (... airRuntime ...))
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ArgonV
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes much. Smile We have to do that so the aircraft feel more fluid and not so twitchy.
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LesterBoffo
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I've noticed with the Scramble! training mission (with the RE8's as defenders with the new flight model you sent.) The AI tends to crash the RE8's sooner.

Of course they're flying a bit slower. But with the climbing and diving pattern of the flock of enemy Albatri do when they make their oblong attack circuit of the airfield, the RE8's seem to get into unrecoverable whip stalls trying to climb after the DI's after they pullout of their diving attack. Before the update the AI was flying them fine but they were a bit more aerobatic to say the least. Surprised
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ArgonV
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah probably the result of more e loss at high AoAs that I added... I'll see if I can tweak the rate of climb a bit higher for the AI.
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LesterBoffo
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could you adjust down the sharpness of the elevators response? some sort of delay or lag? The climb rate seems fine, they manage not get dropped too far behind the Albatroses in a climb.

It seems more of a horizontal tail surface control throw problem.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will do! You are correct, I did edit this aspect of the FM.
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LesterBoffo
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought I'd add, in a late bump of this thread, that setting the AI skill slider lower does slow down the gradual descent to ground in s furball. I've set mine to about 70% and it's made a small difference while still keeping the planes dangerous enough that you don't just wander into combat and expect easy kills.
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